Session 6- Winning The Debate.mp3

[00:00:02] Do ETF Action Campaign Academy Sessions 6? We're calling this the section winning the argument. And here are job on Folio and Tony Kreindler, both with EDF. Joe is currently the president of Idea of Action. He's in his seventh year at this organization. And prior to that, he served a variety of political communications and management roles for three different members, the U.S. House and Senate. Hendler is the senior director of government relations at EDF. He's spent the last 10 years working with members of both parties to advance environmental solutions. Prior to joining EDF, he was CEO of a news company and he served 10 years as a reporter covering Congress and the executive branch. With that goal and Tony, take it away.

[00:00:45] All right. This criminal, let's do this thing.

[00:00:46] Thank you, Joe. One thing I always keep in the back of your mind environmental policy issues is that they're all complicated.

[00:00:54] There is no simple solution to any given environmental problem. They often involve tradeoffs, but more often than not, they give you the ability to connect very directly to the value systems that your voters hold dear.

[00:01:10] The environment is the neighborhood in which they live. It's the woods, streams and wetlands where your family and kids play and fish. In some cases, and the best way to win the argument on environmental values is to stay close to your personal value system and to connect it to your voters value systems. And so don't overcomplicate things. Talk about what you care about. Talk about why clean air and clean water is good for you.

[00:01:41] That's good for your voters and it's good for their families.

[00:01:45] Do you think, Joe? That's exactly right. And, you know, I like I like starting here because I think this is the safest way to get both your positions out and in a campaign setting. And, you know, in you, it allows you to talk about environmental issues. Even if you're not an environmental expert like Tony is, it allows you to talk about these issues in a way that that you feel really comfortable. I think I think voters pick up on that. So first things first. It is all about values, because I think that's that that is the one of the best ways to present as a candidate to connect with with people that, you know, are they are electing or sort of hiring you for the job.

[00:02:27] And at the same time, look, you're your average voter probably cares about water quality, whether they live on the East Coast, the West Coast or somewhere in the middle. But they're not going to care so much if you've got an elaborate policy solutions, too much nitrogen in the water. And talking the that things that you care about gives you the opportunity. Connect them without being boring or overweight policy policies to say, all right, if you're explaining you're losing.

[00:02:54] This is a Tony line.

[00:02:55] That's true. Actually, there was a Bill Clinton won. But it still holds true. Oh, so many years later.

[00:03:02] Let's move on.

[00:03:04] I'll start here. Hey, you know, this is something we found in polling that I think a lot of candidates don't quite get. It is really, really hard and that's why disqualify yourself in the eyes of voters. If you talk about supporting the environment, there are, I would say no state issue is when it comes to campaigning. But if you're if you're looking at a oh, one of the safer ones talking about why you support the clean air and clean water around you, your community and kids and and grandparents, nothing safer than that. But it is very easy to sort of almost talk about environmental issues and missing voters. And that's, I think, what we sort of want to spend a little bit of time thinking about today with with with with the candidates here. You know, I think you have to see, let's say, the forest of the trees here. You have to sort of know where what your voters are thinking and how that and how to connect with them in a lot of times, especially if you're running in a race down ballot, that you sort of read the media of New York Times or whatever sort of popping on Twitter and a lot of these sort of things shaping national issues. And you should talk about those, maybe not. And in many cases that you probably shouldn't. And you should. You should be focused entirely on the needs and concerns of your community. And if at all possible, ignore some of those big some of those big sweeping national trends.

[00:04:44] Right. And, you know, I think environment in particular is a fascinating political issue because there are undercurrents in the headlines that speak to national issues.

[00:04:55] But the only people that are really thinking about those are the voters who lie in the extremes on either end of the political spectrum.

[00:05:02] And so if you talk about climate change, that does trigger a response that's associated with either some very good things or some very not good things. But that's only on the edges right in the middle where the voters are and where the voters are, and that you need to get elected.

[00:05:23] They actually will give you quite a bit of latitude on environmental issues. I like to think of it sort of as elasticity in the electorate. If that makes sense to people.

[00:05:36] We started here by saying Jim mentioned that it's very hard to disqualify yourself on environmental issues. And that's true because voters basically assume that they and you and every American is a conservationist and fundamentalist and that is a good thing.

[00:05:55] And they want to hear you speak to that in some way.

[00:05:59] Well, it's hard to disqualify herself, though. It is pretty easy to commit an unforced error. And we see this all the time on both sides of the aisle. And Republicans who are thinking about those voters on the extreme edge of the political spectrum and say something that in voters minds disqualifies them from mainstream science, for example. That's an unforced error. You don't have to question environmental values and science. That's a Republican.

[00:06:30] You can speak to a value system if you want to speak to Democrats, I believe do this, too.

[00:06:35] I think Joe seen it in that campaign that he's run the risk with Democratic candidates just to go too far to the national policy side of the environmental equation, to talk about the environment in the middle of geopolitics or the national economy. That's not what voters are thinking about voters on both sides when they think of the environment again.

[00:06:56] They think of their community. They think of the stream. They think of the park in their neighborhood. They think of the air they breathe and the water they drink.

[00:07:03] And if you stick to that, you're going to win.

[00:07:06] One more thing we flag here on this slide as voters and see environment and find our binary choice and let's just sort of put some a mask that a lot of times you pick a fight. Well, if you're for the environment, you're clearly against Johns. No. That's not what it does at all. And in many cases, voters are are not expecting you to make that choice. They expect a clean environment and they expect you to grow the economy. It's that simple. And and most and most voters are going to are going to believe you if you're arguing that you can do both and shouldn't do.

[00:07:41] That's right. I think anybody who's running for office, be it at the local level with a rational level or even the national level, should take the time to find a couple of examples in their district, in their state, in their community, where businesses are actually creating jobs to address environmental problems. And some of these, you know, are fairly obvious.

[00:08:00] Obviously, we've got companies like so which city out there putting solar panels on people's roofs so that real jobs. Sometimes they're a little less obvious, but they're there.

[00:08:08] No, they're area in states where agriculture is a dominant part of the economy. There are high tech companies, even some of the larger ones that you know about, like John Deere and Caterpillar, who are making technologies and tractors that actually are more efficient and are more efficient with the use of things like fertilizer. Up and down the East Coast, we have companies now that are making small rubber gaskets that go into energy efficient air conditioners. These are all environmental issues. They are directly connected to the local economy. And it's a very safe and very productive place from which to talk about these issues.

[00:08:45] Let's move on that slide, because somewhere this campaign manager wants a candidate to get back to call time and stop listening to us. So let's move on. All right. Let's talk about your record in the press. I think from our intros, what some folks here want to know is we've both worked either as members of the media themselves or as press flacks. My early career was working directly with with candidates and press. Let's give some people a couple of tips. Start here with understanding the press.

[00:09:17] Let's do it. I think I want to start with the first thing that is bulleted on this slide, which is that that journalists today, reporters in general, are much busier than they used to be 10 years ago.

[00:09:28] A reporter would either be working on a short piece for the daily paper or maybe a long form piece for a magazine or a newspaper today.

[00:09:36] Every reporter wakes up one morning, is expected to blog, is expected to tweet, is expected to feed a 24/7 news cycle on the Internet Web site that represents their paper or television station or radio station.

[00:09:50] At the same time, they're expected to go on TV and go on radio and basically squeeze in where they can. The story that they're on deadline for. And so recognizing how busy they are and being prepared to be very precise, brief and helpful to the reporters that are working today, is your best chance of being both successful in what you try and do on any given day or in the long run in your relationships with the press.

[00:10:20] So I think the next couple of both here are really important. Isn't they're a little nuts and bolts. But I like them. And the first thing is that, you know, though, the way people are communicating with each other is changing rapidly, sending a press release and expecting reporters or they're going to pick it up or run with it. Those days are over in many ways. Reporters are getting flooded with e-mail and press releases and and many and many have beats that are wide ranging. So just having your your campaign send out a press release and then waiting for a reporter to bite is not going to it's not going to work. I'm not going to happen. You know, just as journalists are using other ways of communicating with people. Those are also ways you can communicate with journalists. Twitter and other social media platforms are really excellent ways to get your message and yourself in front of journalists.

[00:11:16] I remember when when journalists you said direct message me on Twitter or start posting, you know, with my with my Twitter handle on Twitter just to get my attention because I wanted a quote.

[00:11:31] I thought to myself, that was pretty good. And I'm going to turn that clip that on its head and start using Twitter to reach out to members of media.

[00:11:43] Let's keep going. Hi.

[00:11:48] I love this slide because it it's a it's a good reminder that journalists are people, too, and they're not some sort of scary animal. They're they are actually human beings with feelings and who respond to the same sort of relationship cues that we all do in our personal lives and our professional lives. So always approach journalists with the respect that you would give to anybody that you want to have a working relationship with. Like there's always going to be an adversarial piece to the press conversation because it's reporters jobs to get information. The reporters aren't getting and beat people with a story. And so you'll find some aggressive ones, but there's still people. And so this is almost sort of like a moral golden code issue here. If a reporter reaches out. Respond quickly. We've talked about how precious their time is. Your time is precious to a quick response is going to build a lot of goodwill because they know that you were treating them as somebody who is worth their time. Frankly, they'll be more generous with their time if you're more generous with your time. They also value honesty. Reporters can smell to things pretty quickly. One is fear. And that can always turn against you. And honesty. And so never try to hide the ball. REPORTER If there's something you don't want to talk about, clearly you don't want to talk about it, but don't resort to, you know, what could be obvious probationary tactics to avoid talking about something. Be clear, be honest, be quick and be good.

[00:13:30] Think that right now there are a lot of bad. There's a bottle. A lot of bad lessons out there. We see some national politicians doing some things that we would never recommend. You're not going to win. You're not going to win a fight with a reporter for writing someone or you know, or impugning they're there. Their judgment or their motive is probably not going to work. And I'm not or I'll I'll say this. I'll take this one. You don't want to column fake. It's not and it's not going to endear you to the reporter covering your race. And you. So what do you do if you if you're if a reporter reaches out and says, I'm covering X? Well, let's let's be let's sort of start from the most important thing. You got to respond quickly. Yeah. I mean, if you're dragging their feet away, you know, the very last minute to polish up that statement that you're running e-mail and you're sending it over at five thirty. Yeah, it's too late. And you're going to get your your comment and they're responding to every inquiry is it is sometimes really hard, especially if you're in a tough spot. Let's just, you know, getting back to reporter and even if it has to be no comment. Good to say no comment. Yeah. And and and keep that relationship intact for that for the next time, I think you're going to get much better, much better treatment down the road. And if you're not simply picking and choosing who you're responding back to.

[00:15:05] And we talk about responding quickly because of the value of your time and the value of reports on.

[00:15:09] But one thing you always keep in mind is that stories are never written and final until they're edited and printed or run on the Internet or radio or television. And so you have an opportunity to shape a story at every turn of the wheel. And the earlier you engage with the reporter, the earlier you can begin to shape that story both through how you frame the issues and by some fairly, you know, easy things that can help a reporter get their job done, too, as well, suggesting people for them to talk to about their story, who might share your view of the world so early is good. And it's never too late to shift the story in a way that's more helpful.

[00:15:48] Just a note of caution. There are a lot of difference. Air quotes here. Reporters out there and and some and most are reputable and some are writing for online, online blogs and things like that that have huge followings or significant followings. And in your community, they're all real. But there are some there are some weirdos and some trolls out there. Just just know who you're talking to and what it's being used for. People are now more than ever try to pen candidates down and get him to say say something silly. And the Internet makes getting that out there very, very, very easy.

[00:16:29] Earned media one of the least understood facets of the business. And our side of the fence here, we talk better in media as media that has actually earned by your hard work an occasion with press as opposed to paid media, which are the campaign ads that you run and pay for.

[00:16:47] Earned media is an art in many ways. But it's also science that we've talked about. A lot of the scientific aspects of quantifiable aspects treat reporters with respect.

[00:16:57] Engage early. But the awfulness of this is in relationship building and your ability to connect with a reporter. Some of the things we've covered and trust and honesty. Being generous with your time is going to pay dividends for the duration of your campaign. The press release, which can be shortened to PR, is in fact not a PR strategy. As Joe mentioned before, people love rhythm.

[00:17:26] They don't have time to rhythm, and they assume that they're just going to be saying something they already know and to be successful at in media. Here are the three things you need to be.

[00:17:36] You need to be newsworthy. News is called news because it's news and not always. And so if you call a reporter, you have to have something newsworthy as to be relevant. It might be newsworthy, but totally irrelevant in a campaign cycle. Inventing a new form of silly putty who is not going to gain coverage. Finally, I think this is really, really important.

[00:18:00] You need to approach the reporter that you were pitching within the frame that they are approaching their story. And by that I mean you'll have a reporter covering your race and they may be covering it for a purely political lens because you're a political reporter. Perhaps they're covering it through an economic lens because they're an economic order. Perhaps they're a gossip columnists and are treating the campaign as a weird sideshow regardless of what that frame is. You will be much more successful in getting your story in there if you approach it in the same way. So if you're calling an economics reporter to talk about your economic policy or calling a political reporter, you know, talk to them about your your paid media strategy.

[00:18:39] Talk to some of that fence and you'll get in the story.

[00:18:42] You've got to stick with it. This is this is one of those things that I feel like I'm grinding it out. And in many cases, you are army is hard, actually. You have to work it. So I also say don't be discouraged if, you know, a pitch doesn't go right or that, you know, the thing that you thought was just absolutely the best idea or the campaign theme you wanted to push that week doesn't get covered. That's that's normal. You got to keep at it. Oh, so you've been approached by a reporter. Let's talk about something. And in many cases, you sort of you may be inclined if you know the person, just go, OK. Just call my back. Right. I know. Bomb, bomb is great. And just winging it. But having a little bit of of consistency in how you prepare for interview use and thinking about these questions prior to going in anymore you to be more effective and actually helped your campaign because at the end of the day you are running, everything you're doing has to have some connectivity to helping you get elected, helping you and helping you clear that bar, helping you communicate with voters. So start with, hey, why am I having this interview? And by that, sure, someone may have called you, but you have to have a reason for responding and engaging and you have to figure out how to use that interview to the best of your ability. So someone's calling you. Think about what that message is you want to share. Second, you know, start with what may sound like sort of weird or stilted. I'm trying to sort of be too cute here, but figure out the ground rules are right, especially if you're a TV or radio work on TV or radio. Is it taped? Is it live? What what's the person's deadline? These simple questions that we've outlined here are going to help you prepare for that conversation, whether it's a blogger or your local television news reporter or a CNN is coming down and something is broken and you're have to work there. Follow those four questions we've outlined there and you will and you'll be better off with these next parts here.

[00:21:00] Rebels can be something that people forget about, but can be both the cause of and an often solution to some of the press problems out there.

[00:21:11] For those of you who like watching movies, I commend to you. A movie called The Ides of March starring George Clooney. A great movie on its own. But there are some very insightful moments in there about the interaction between campaigns and the working press.

[00:21:26] And the big takeaway there, but also in my own personal experience, and I'm sure Joe's is that no matter how close you feel with a reporter, whether you're buds, whether you dinner together, where you share a few beers or a football game, if you do not say off the record, it is on the record. And so you cannot assume that because your friends, they are going to not use something and they have to agree to it.

[00:21:50] And they have to agree to it. Just because you say off the record does not mean a reporter is going to is going to just as a group of all agree to that. You have to like you have to make sure that they're there. You said it's a two way street.

[00:22:02] And don't be afraid to say it several times in the course of the conversation.

[00:22:07] We also do a movie review podcast. So check that out later. Definitely. Let's keep going. Look, this is sort of what I touch on a little bit or earlier. But like every everything you say has to have some reason. I know that sounds kind of robotic, but like every every story, every media hit, every communication you have has to have some something behind. It has to be part of a strategy. Your your employee. If if a candidate goes out and says 30 different things over the course of two weeks. Everyone that is listening to that will will will remember none of them a good candidate over the course of two weeks will say. One, maybe two things. 30 different times, though. Remember that your community came with voters and all of these and all of these and all these scenarios and have that be your focus so you can actually have a strategy to to get across a story you're currently telling whether or not it's a TV interview or a radio interview or press it. Think about that. Now, remember, if you're if you've got a question that doesn't fit the the the the point in campaign that you are right now or you want to pivot to what you want to talk about, do it. One of the key things that we've talked about in this train before, I'm going to have Tony elaborated on that a little bit with from answer the question you want to answer.

[00:23:34] This is a time honored and very effective tactic. And you see it with every good candidate. Right. It's about staying on message and it's bad, your narrative. And as Joe said, you need to decide what you want your narrative being when you are talking to voters. What you're doing is establishing an identity in their mind. If who you are and what you stand for and the narrative that you can sit comfortably that feels honest, truthful and connects with voters is the way you do that.

[00:24:02] To just point, never answer the question that's asked. Right. Answer the question that you want to answer. So if I were to ask Joe, what's your favorite color?

[00:24:11] Joe would be embarrassed by answering something like mock or cabernet. But when you say, well, you know, Tony, I'm glad you asked that question, because the spectrum of colors that we have in this country is terribly important. And I support colors, period. And Joe will say that 30 times, maybe 30 different ways over the course of the week. But what he's doing is establishing a narrative that he's a colorful guy. He likes colors.

[00:24:35] At the end of the day, A, yes, this person is interviewing you because you're a candidate for him. And honestly, that that is that's the easiest pick that you have. All right. I mean, the reason you're being asked this question is probably not because you're a policy expert or now or have written a report that is focused on that thing, not your candidate. And you're being asked for your opinion or your position on that in its own right. Is is it easy pivot you have. So think about that and just be fair. Be very comfortable with it. Practice of your team. Have them ask the tough question and you practice pivoting to either a non answer on that tough question and then getting to the thing you want to. You want to say if you look at if you watch cable news and I don't really recommend it, but if you'll you'll notice that a lot of the the satellite interviews where there is a member of Congress or a politician that's in front of a camera, he's got an earpiece. Watch that every once in a while and count them amount of times that that that person actually answers a question that was asked. It is rare. And then you will and you will see them not stop, because it's very clear they did not answer that question. But they're going to get their their two cents and watch it and sort of use it and use those tips and and and sort of. And as best you can try try that on and try to get good at it.

[00:26:02] These are things that can help you essentially sound.

[00:26:09] Better symbol step, right? Joe and I are sitting down here.

[00:26:13] If I were to stand up, my enunciation would become clearer, my voice would become louder, I would sound much more authoritative. But I'm going to sit for now.

[00:26:24] They were armed. If you're on the phone talking to reporter, stand up, right. If you're on TV. Stare at the camera. Don't look around too much. You take. Take the time to actually have your physical bearing.

[00:26:39] Get the situation that you're in.

[00:26:41] How you present is such an important part of how you communicate. So you may have your your message down cold and it could sound great and you've made deliver it perfectly. But if you look shifty on camera, people don't think you're lying to really, really think about this. And this is not natural. I mean, I remember being thrown into doing TV interviews very early on in my career and thinking to myself, man, there is nothing weirder than talking to this massive machine with this guy who could look like he just could not care less about what I'm saying. Most cameramen pretty much zone out when you're talking. They're worried more about sound, sound and tone and as they as the camera focused or not. Now, you're saying it can be a very off putting engagement. So practice it and don't take it personal, but always keep your cool. There is nothing worse than the missed opportunity or having to clean up the massive of you as a candidate, just just not being able to handle a tough questioner or someone poking at you. It really it's it's a cardinal sin. And and and really, if you're hot tempered and to begin with, do work on it, the worse the the worst moments are when someone asks a politician, just a straight up question that they just feel like is is inappropriate or mayor or cuts to their hair, cuts to their personality or their their trustworthiness, and they just lose it then that that reaction is death.

[00:28:30] Yes. And there are a number of ways to mess it up. But if you if you keep him back, your mind that a TV interview or radio interview, you're not talking to a reporter, you're talking to voters.

[00:28:39] And at the end of the day, this is a job interview. You were interviewing for the job of representing your voters. If your demeanor is such that you can't handle a reporter, they're not going to trust you to handle the job.

[00:28:49] You would not hire any of your campaign staff if under questioning they freaked out and started yelling, you wouldn't know it.

[00:28:56] Think about that debate prep.

[00:28:59] You may get one, two, maybe three chances to debate your opponent over the course of a of a of a campaign. So these so being ready for these events matter to voters that are very, very focused, like they're listening, trying to make up their mind, their high information voters. This is this is this is where they are going to make their their choice. So think about this. So we've talked about message boxes as part of the train in the past. They're very, very useful. You do not have to overcomplicate this. Know what you want to say about you, what they are going to say about you, what they or you want to say about them and what they say about their own candidacy. You have to know these things. Write them out. A debate is a perfect opportunity to do three of these things for them on them. They'll handle on their own. So you on them can we really can can be transformational to a race. I am in my off time. I help local candidates think through this stuff. And I just went through this with my local mayoral candidate who has the ability to frame the race. Is it is. And nobody knows what the choices. Nobody knows that there's a real choice on the ballot. And I'd argue that this is absolutely the right time for them to define the race because they can do it. It's a huge opportunity. That's you on them. Get them on. You got to be able to take a punch and have really solid responses to it. Write them out. Practice their responses. You know what they are. Don't be silly. No. No candidate is perfect. Know your weaknesses and know how they want to exploit them and have a really good answer for it. And always come back to your core message. What do you want to share to voters? It should be your back pocket. You in your front pocket. It should be the thing you say three times. At a minimum over the course of an hour debate. Keep coming back to it.

[00:31:02] Yes.

[00:31:02] And if you've done very important work that we've discussed in those large leading up to our next movie segment here, then this should be easy, because if your narrative is clear and you stick to it, you can pretty much fit anything you want to that narrative. So. Your narrative is I'm a donut salesman and somebody asks you a question about trade policy, you can say that trade policy is really good for donut sales.

[00:31:32] If they ask you a recreational policy, well, and you know, after I exercise, I like to eat donuts. I know that's a very strange and counterintuitive example, but the same thing holds true for environmental policy.

[00:31:45] Always be prepping is not fun, but you can use every little moment of time to prep for debate. That if you have time, of course, sitting down and thinking through and running it out and having someone that can play your opponent or your opponents is really useful. But that is that is not what we mean by this. You can start prepping for a debate two months in advance and write the questions out, write your responses out, put them on flash cards, work through those flash cards when you're when you're traveling to a campaign event. Have have family, staff, friends. You just just think about what the questions could be and have them write out those questions. I'm really kind of engaged with people around you to help with this. There is a you know, the candidate is prepared for debate is obvious. That has done nothing. And as I leaned on his or her own skills is also pretty obvious to the one thing that people certainly want to find as they get good there. Their people take home, they are practiced. They are not off the cuff. In 10 years and Democratic politics, every zinger that we wrote, if if we could, we tested at the end and really sort of made sure that it was it was that it was worth using. So it's not it's not, you know, quick wit, it's practice.

[00:33:24] And you know that we've seen this in recent history and how effective it can be. And once you find something you work, stick with it. This is not a good example of what I would recommend that you do.

[00:33:33] But it's a good example of how somebody chooses to practice.

[00:33:36] Obviously, President Trump started off somewhere in the middle of a 2016 presidential primary cycle, using disparaging adjectives as a predicate to every other candidate's name.

[00:33:48] Once that worked, once he found one for everybody and that became strategy tactic game over for the rest of the debates, it was terribly effective. And I wouldn't suggest you do that the same way. But it's a good example of how finding a zinger that reflects how you want to play this thing can really actually work.

[00:34:09] They were a moment in time to where the pendulum swung back the other way. That that that voters and most voters, I say, are looking for candidates that respect one another and don't cross that line. So note that a zinger as in calling someone an idiot or I think that's that's not me. Here it is. And is that sort of new newsworthy tweet or the line that that that that's speak to stay in the race? Maybe it's you, maybe it's your opponent.

[00:34:40] And it also gives voters a quick insight into your personality.

[00:34:44] I think it's very important we can talk about these nice folks for a while. But let's let's spend a little bit time on. On contrast here, because this is this is setting up that choice that I think is really going to jump in.

[00:34:55] Absolutely. I think this is you know, this is a fantastic time to talk about this politics because everybody wants to be different than the other guy right now.

[00:35:04] Whether you're Republican in the Congress wants to be different in the White House, whether you're a Democrat who wants to be different from some longtime leaders of the party, everybody just wants to be different. There's a lot of flux in the system.

[00:35:16] And it's a great opportunity. And the important thing I see on this slide here is that contrast does not mean you need to attack your opponent.

[00:35:27] That is probably sort of the the lowest probability move it's going to get you stand out from the pack or stand out with your opponent. This is really about your narrative and sticking to your narrative and going back to where we started, which is values. You want your voters to think that you were more like them than the other guy. That's basically the calculation. And you guys are going to know your voters better than us.

[00:35:55] But, you know, I seriously urge to find all the data that you can get your hands on that tells you the most that you can possibly learn about the value systems of your constituents and figure out how you are closer to that than your opponent and drive it home.

[00:36:14] This is incredibly important for folks running in primaries where there may be a lot of agreement on that or issues. But you have to set up that choice for voters and you may agree on 90 percent of the issues. Maybe it isn't pointing out that 10 percent, maybe it's suggesting that you are better equipped or better prepared a candidate to to make those issues happen or make that thing happen. There are many ways.

[00:36:41] And I think, look, it's really easy on our stuff, on environmental issues. It's easy to connect. Right.

[00:36:46] And so hypothetical primary, that Democratic primary, every Democratic candidate wants to do the right thing on climate change. Every Republican primary candidate is for an all of the above energy policy. There's not a lot of differentiation there. But where you can actually stand apart is to explain to your voters why. Why do you want to do something about climate change? Well, then that's going to vary by district. Some people want to do it because the seas are rising around them. Other people want to do it because it's an economic opportunity. As a Republican, you might support all of the above energy policy, but energy is going to look different in your district than some places. That's going to mean you're a strong supporter of wind. In other places, it's going to mean that you are as brown supporter of solar or geothermal or hydro. So figure out a way to connect with your voters. That speaks to their values. That sets you apart on what otherwise might be a completely homogenous policy set by.

[00:37:40] In the moment, I don't like you. If most folks have not, it'll be a really sort of surreal moment to be standing on the stage or sitting at a table with with with your opponent, primary or otherwise being asked questions with multiple cameras on your being recorded. It's a strange, strange time. You actually can't practice that in the moment onstage. It is its own it is its own very odd moment to just do a couple things. You have a plan. Know what you want to say. Get those message bosses down and be very comfortable with what they say. Try and try to answer them in the shower as you're driving around. Just have that stuff locked down. Know the issues you want to share and keep your cool. Really, really quite, quite simple recommendations here. But then also, you know, don't be a punching dummy, right? I mean, you know, and know how to know how to push back. If if someone attacks you or or sets up something that you completely disagree with. Don't. Don't be afraid to mix it up. And we said this time and again. Keeping it. Keeping it local. Keeping the keeping the issues as close to your voters as possible is is really the best advice that I think fits regardless of where you're running for mayor or Congress.

[00:39:08] That's right. And you know, when somebody goes negative on you, when it's an outcome, meaning that it's about you and your character rather than policy issues that are under debate, remind the voters that quite often if a candidate runs out of things sound policy, they'll attack you because they've run out of things to say of substance.

[00:39:25] And so remind voters that you're here to talk about substance and policy matters to them. Your opponent clearly doesn't have any other good ideas. So what we can do is attack.

[00:39:35] Nice little, nice little pushback.

[00:39:40] Every. You don't have to wait for a debate. You can make these happen and a lot of times are not that perfect TV moment. They are in community halls across the country. Push those. Push, push your push our communities to hold conversations.

[00:40:02] They are there as the baby as you get without. Again, the cameras and the podiums.

[00:40:09] And if your opponent disagrees to join you, do it anyway.

[00:40:13] I am. It is quite awkward debating a cardboard cutout of your opponent. However, Kinko's is pretty is pretty adept at making these things happen. You try it out, you get us some media coverage out of it and again, have a little fun with it, because if your opponent does not want to debate you, I imagine that is a pretty press worthy thing that I would give it to the first post presentation.

[00:40:44] All right. Wrap it up right there, my friend.

[00:40:48] I think we've talked about this a lot, so I'm going to keep it simple and keep it local and speak values again. Keep it simple. Keep a local and speak to values. If you do that, you can't lose.

[00:41:01] It's when you stray from the symbol on the local, when the values of your voters that you can prevent unforced errors and get crosswise with things you really shouldn't have to be worried about.

[00:41:12] Let's take some questions.

[00:41:14] All right, guys, thank you so much for this presentation. I have two questions for you on the what is the best way for somebody get comfortable with sticking to talking points. They don't want to sound like a robot.

[00:41:27] You know, Joe mentioned something really important earlier. And this is going to be something you have to figure out on your own. But the guys who are really good at this and the guys who are really good at this figure out ways to say the same thing over and over again, 30 or 40 different ways. And if you can figure that out, spend some time doing it. Read it on our issues. Keeping it simple and secure and talking points. If you want to convey the fact that your environmentalist have a dozen things to say about that. As for clean water, everybody breathe the same air. I don't want my kids playing in garbage.

[00:42:01] Everybody should recycle. Right. So you're saying I'm an environmentalist and very simple in multiple ways. Over and over and over again.

[00:42:08] Do boring and boring yourself, but you're just reinforcing that narrative.

[00:42:13] Yeah, it's one of those things where I've seen I've seen people that are really, really good at it. And folks I've realized that have struggled with it. But even even politicians that I've worked with that have a struggle with it recognize that it's so important, because most people's natural inclination is to do everything we just told not to do. Answer the question as it was asked. Try to be an issue expert on actually everything, you know, make every response fit. Exactly. Exactly. To whoever's in front of them. Right. If someone if someone came up and and asked me about any number of issues, I'd have no idea how to how to have to answer them. And my natural inclination would make something up. So in many ways, sort of being being really comfortable with your core messages and and finding those unique ways to come back to them both feel right to you. It should be you know, should be communications strategy one at one. And folks, at this point in a campaign cycle, if if you haven't committed to doing that, I think I think now's the time because you're gonna get way too close to election day where the closer you get to election day, if you are not going back to the one or two themes that you've been pushing and you're paid in your ad, in in your debates, in your media, if you're if you as a candidate are not ready to do that, you're probably not going to win.

[00:43:45] When should I consider going negative and when should a candidate not go negative?

[00:43:53] That is a very interesting question and these interesting political times, I think Joe mentioned this before and we see this in the data. And we here at EDF and EDF action do quite a bit of paid advocacy in the media space.

[00:44:09] So we've got a lot of data on what works and what doesn't work. Going negative. It's a very low percentage play, right? When you go negative, you are simply telling people why you personally don't like the other guy. You're not telling them why they should like you.

[00:44:25] And so being positive about yourself, about your message, about where you're trying to achieve on your constituents behalf isn't always the better play. I think voters are tired of negative politics. Joe mentioned this. So the first question should be rather than when do I go negative? How can I always go positive? And how many different ways can I do that? It doesn't mean you're not going to get some wrestling matches and you're going to have to figure that out.

[00:44:51] If somebody goes negative on you, you don't want to shy away from that and be perceived as somebody who just runs away from a fight that is never a good thing in politics. But you do have to figure out a way to have that reminds voters again why you reflect their worldview, their values and be positive about being negative.

[00:45:11] That is. I agree with that. I serve him. I have a bit more bare knuckle feeling on negative campaigning. I'm having read part of numerous truly ugly races for Congress. I don't say that probably is just true. And and, you know, disqualifying your opponent in some way can sometimes oftentimes really, really necessary. There are a number of occasions where I can think of that a candidate I've advised or has been so far ahead. There is no need to take, you know, his or her opponent down a notch. But in most cases and some of these coin flip races that your team will push you to a proven negative pay communication. And I think, again, unless you're running away with that, you have to consider and as a part of your your your ability to go to win, that is different than than in personal meetings and personal events where you're with another candidate or you as a candidate are talking.

[00:46:20] I think I think you have to be very, very careful about that sort of carrying the negative in those things. You can. It can. That can. Absolutely.

[00:46:29] Absolutely. You know, this this is this is actually really fun stuff. And the higher you guys get in the electoral system as you move from county council to statewide office or the Congress or beyond, the more sophisticated the opposition negative work gets. And it's just something you're going to have to deal with. I mean, there was not a single well put together campaign out there that it's not engage in negative opposition research and figure out ways that they might use that in the future. Doesn't mean they're going to say you just need to be smart and wear that stuff.

[00:47:03] What I find fascinating is the bar disqualification. Disqualification keeps getting farther away. Right. So you could go negative. But I think, you know, we've successfully redefined like how bad you can be before it actually disqualifies you these days. I mean, we see this on the rational level at the presidential level, you can get away with a lot more than you used to be able to install.

[00:47:26] And, you know, I'm not I go negative, Tony, in this in this event right here. But I will send some mean mail later, undercutting his presentation. Wait for that. I'll do an interoffice e-mail.

[00:47:37] Been looking forward to it. All right. So certain politicians are having a lot of success. Communicating without a filter. Should I do that as a candidate? No, no, no, no, no.

[00:47:53] You won't get away with it. Simple as that. You know, they're there. I can count on a number of hands like politicians that somehow have gotten away with it. And I have are way more politicians that you that you've never heard of that I've tried and have lost.

[00:48:09] Don't do it. It's not a good idea. I a good team. They're your best filter.

[00:48:16] All right, so if I'm running for office and my opponent has made strong efforts to box man on my support for environmental issues and it seems to be working with a subset of voters, how do you get yourself out of the box?

[00:48:30] You know. I'm going to be repetitive and reinforce my narrative and stay on my talking points here.

[00:48:40] The best way to get out of that box is to just.

[00:48:45] Speak directly through the walls of that box to your voters. You can always overcome a negative portrayal of your environmental position by speaking directly to your voters about why you care about the area that your children read of the water that your family's drink and the health and safety of your neighborhood that will break any box that your opponent tries to get around you.

[00:49:09] The mistake that people make is trying to counter an attack on environmental policy with a smarter response on environmental policy.

[00:49:17] Voters not go that deep on these issues, but they are very, very deep on their feelings for their communities and their natural surroundings. I mean, this this goes for Republicans. It goes for Democrats. Everybody cares about the country that we live in and their personal health and safety.

[00:49:37] Think about think about the pivot.

[00:49:38] Think about how to how the attack passes them and in many cases you can turn right back around and suggest that they're trying to appear to appeal to a very narrow subset of voters that in most places is not. It's not the majority.

[00:49:53] Let's be frank here. Or a narrow minority of special interests. Absolutely not even voters. But too often, environmental conversations and policies are driven by the narrow set of special interests that have specific wants desires before policymakers at the state and federal level. They tend to dominate conversation. You never gonna outspend those guys, but you can certainly help value those guys. Read your firm's care more about themselves and they do have a special interest expression for particular policy.

[00:50:27] All right, so assuming I have done everything you guys and advised me to do as a candidate, I've built relationships to serve reporters and I've made the effort to be responsive and quick and all that kind of good stuff. How would you handle a crisis? A scandal?

[00:50:46] You know, we can make this really hard and there are people that are paid very good money to step in and indications, but I think it's pretty simple. You tell the truth the first time. You you you don't have the drip, drip, drip of whatever. Then the next step is you get ahead of it. You deal with it aggressively and make the apostle again to have it be a one or two day story at the most. And the people that mess up try to try to push the blame or push it off on something else. They try to hide a piece of the actual, you know, the actual conversation. Like every time I've seen it extend past a day or two, it is because the response is someone trying to be too cute or trying to dig in and fight almost every good crisis and can end a day or two if the person deals with it head on. And it's truthful.

[00:51:43] Yeah. Look easy, Joe. That is exactly right. I want to emphasize one thing that Joe mentioned there is the crisis is not of your own making. If somebody is manufacturing a crisis for which you have mentioned to, you better be honest about everything right away, because I'll bet you that whoever is manufacturing this crisis is holding in advance a lot of information. And they're just going to put it in front of reporters every day until the election is a drip by drip by drip. And so you've got to be quick. You've got to be honest and you have to be thorough. And frankly, you know, your best hope in these situations is to divide the story before anybody else does. And that's why you can't wait. Right. If something comes across 9:00 in the morning, you're going to be out there at nine thirty talking about it, being honest about it and framing the story on your terms, because the longer you wait, other people are going to jump right in.

[00:52:40] And you shouldn't be caught off guard by these things and you should go into every campaign. Again, Mayor, Congress with and with an idea of what your what your weaknesses are and and have. And I've been working on a a crisis strategy on things that we all have that are not that are, you know, could be twisted or sort of used try to peel votes away from you. So don't be silly. If you start a campaign and you know all you know, you have a really sort of messy divorce record out there. You've got to be honest with the team about that and know that that is absolutely coming. You can't just sort of think it's not. So doing a little prep work in advance is also really keeping you said if you're getting caught off guard by something, your kids aren't caught off guard by something. You've actually done something wrong prior.

[00:53:31] Can you say one more thing about this? There's a huge opportunity cost of letting a story like this, whatever it might be. Roll on. Right. Every time you've got to respond to something and explain something, you're not talking about what you want to be talking to voters about. Campaigns do not go on forever. Time is limited. Voters attention to what you're saying is limited. There's a lot of competing noise out there. And every time you're just explaining something that you didn't want to talk about, you're not talking about what you do want to talk about. So move fast.

[00:54:02] I can't believe your restraint and all the Trump jokes that I know we're going through your head that you didn't make.

[00:54:08] I have a couple Louisiana ones I was ready to tee up. I know the joke comes out of that world, so I didn't want to embarrass him.

[00:54:14] For our best behavior today. Yeah.

[00:54:17] All right. So finally, how should a candidate remain focused on their values in this breaking news cycle?

[00:54:27] It's hard, right? Amazing. That's a tough question. You know. I don't know.

[00:54:35] I'm sure there are reasons why people run for office that that are, you know, they want to climb the ladder or things like that, but for the most part. What? What? It is hard work. It is a kind of. It pulls at your family. It pulls at your time. You end up with less money. Like there are very few reasons actually run. So this is not a convincing people to run section of our training. But I think you you you find you run because you want it. You want to do something good and you want to make something better. And coming back to that as what drove you to run the first place, that sort of mooring to to the, you know, the campaign and why you're doing it is is incredibly poor. Has to be there. And if it's there, I think the values attached to that.

[00:55:27] I totally agree.

[00:55:28] And you know, Morgan, that's a great question, because candidates today, I think, have to be or attempted to be more reactionary than they ever have been in history because there's just so much going on and so much to react to federal level at state level globally. I mean, there's just a lot happening right now and a lot of it is unprecedented in terms of politics and policy. Joe's right. Look, if you don't have a good reason to run for office, you can explain in 10 words or less, Peter, voters. You shouldn't be doing it. And when you're forced into a situation where you have to be reactionary, you use that as an opportunity to pivot back to why you're running for office, period.

[00:56:09] Well, I think that's all I have for question, guys. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks. I'll go in there some.